Senator Ayodele Arise, chieftain of the All Progressives Congress, (APC) represented Ekiti North Senatorial district between 2007-2011 under the erstwhile ruling the Peoples Democratic Party,(PDP), where he served as Chairman Senate Committee on Privatisation. In this interview, Senator Arise expresses support for the controversial Tax Reform Bills, enumerating its likely positive impacts on the economy and states. TAIWO AMODU brings the excerpts:

The Tax Reform Bills appear to have divided the country along ethnic lines. Lawmakers from the North are asking parliament to stay action for further consultations. Their counterparts in the Southern Senators Forum are insisting the initiative is the best thing to happen to the economy at this crucial time. Where do you stand?

I believe many of the problems have been captured in the public domain. It’s a question of lack of adequate education and information. It is being concluded that it›s important that Mr Taiwo Oyedele should do more of the selling of the tax bills to the not so enlightened in economic matters and tax matters as himself. He has been able to give account, a very good account of the policy directions of where we should go with our tax reforms and I believe that as long as he’s able to carry as many people along as possible by way of explaining most of these codes and I understand there are different parts, different components of the tax bill. From all I›ve been able to see and the little I›ve been able to read, I think this is probably the best for Nigeria at this present time. I believe that even if there will be any question, it should be on maybe the percentage in terms of moving from 10% to 15% in a very short period.

But I believe that if even if people want to question the 7.5 to 10 percent VAT movement, and while other taxes have been cancelled, the things in terms of double taxation, I believe that it is still the best for the country. Because as we speak today, a small business will still pay about 13.5 percent in terms of the VAT, withholding tax, the 1% tax, in addition we still have to pay almost 3% of education tax, which is paid out of pocket. So, when you aggregate and add all those things together, it goes far beyond the 10% that this tax bill has proposed for Nigeria. And of course, there are so many other areas in terms of looking at small businesses, looking at their threshold, and saying you do not have to pay any tax at all.

So maybe an organization like mine, or the people working directly with us, might be exempted from tax payments. I believe it’s a way of stimulating the economy, relieving the debt burden on those who are business owners. For example, I have employees, if they have to pay tax, or NSITF, or so many of those variables that we currently have, you’ll find out that the small business owner will have to match whatever the government is charging from their resources. So invariably, if a person is contributing 2%, you have to add another 2% to that to make it up. There are so many areas that people need to sit down and look at and read and comprehend before they can make a very informed judgment. And I agree with some people that, okay, if the Senate says they want to go and study more, if the Northern governors say, okay, we need to study this more. And maybe the South-East caucus now says, we want to understand this more. It›s a question of how much time we have dedicated to studying this tax. Do we have enough time? And what is enough time? Because things are dragging. And of course, rather than for us to start enjoying this from early next year, the longer this drags, the more we are still stranded in the old, multiple taxation system that this government has inherited. I believe we have to give kudos to Mr. President and to Mr. Taiwo Oyedele for a fantastic job that he has done. I’ve listened to him on TV. He has explained painstakingly and

I think we should give kudos to his brilliance. He is not ruffled, he’s not angry, he takes his time, he explains methodically what constitutes the three taxpayers, including tax administration and the rest of them. So now the VAT at 10% is much lower than we are paying now when you aggregate all those taxes together. So, I think it’s something that Nigerians should hail as a fantastic solution to the multiple taxes that Nigerian businessmen, or the small businessmen, even the big ones, have had to contend with over the years.

 

In essence, you are in full support of the four tax reform bills before the National Assembly?

Absolutely so! There might be some areas for adjustment. Let’s listen to every other person expressing concern. Let’s address their concerns. Let’s explain what is inside this tax. That is nothing against any particular section of the country and it cannot even be against where you have a universal tax that has reduced the burden for everybody. I think we should all embrace it. It’s only a question of letting people understand what these things are, break it down, like Oyedele has been breaking it down.

He should continue in that effort. And let’s say, I’ll get back together, and let’s push this to the National Assembly for approval. You know, I have no objection to those who want to study more. But this studying more should not be a delay strategy because it’s going to affect the wallet and the pocket of every person in this country. Those that have been exempted from paying any taxes at all, they will still continue to groan under the burden of the old system if this thing is not quickly approved. So, I support the tax bills.

 

You were a member of the Sixth Senate, if you were to advise the Senate by extension, the National Assembly today on these bills what will you tell them, in terms of how they should approach them; in terms of what the taxes are about, why the reforms are necessary, what will you tell them?

I will look at every section of the bill itself. I will try as much as possible to explain in layman’s language. That you are a member of the National Assembly does not make you an expert on every subject. And so, we explain in layman’s language that these are the advantages of the bills.

This is what we were suffering in the past and of course, there is no nation that can survive without some form of taxation or the other. There’ll be no way to derive income, because of course we’ve been talking of this removal of subsidy from petroleum products. We all know that this country can no longer live on that single product anymore. It’s very clear and of course, part of what the efforts that the president has been making, you look at it even from the excise levies, Nigerians are exporting more, more than previously experienced under any government and these are part of the achievements of this government. People are beginning to be productive. They are exporting in droves. They are exporting our culture, they are exporting our clothes. They are exporting our textiles, they are exporting cashew. They are exporting a number of products, you know, like never before. And so, I had an opportunity of speaking with the Comptroller of Customs, and I asked him that, what is the situation with our exports?

In the past people used to bring this, I mean, they would bring goods here and they would return with empty ships. It is no longer the same. So, things are improving in terms of activities at the customs. So, we are exporting more. We are generating more money any way you look at it. So, some of these things would have to be broken down to members that look, it’s still part of your responsibility to sell this to your communities, that please, this is how this government wants to reduce your burden and now, make those who are making money pay their dues in the society, rather than putting the burden on the small-scale business owners or those who have relatively low income. That is what this bill has done for Nigeria.

There are areas of the tax which people are saying, okay; the consumption tax for example, which some people are looking at as maybe putting them at a disadvantage. I don’t think so. It’s just an encouragement for people to begin to look for avenues of generating revenue with more commitment. For example, if you look at the north versus south, apart from oil in the Niger Delta, the bulk of the mineral resources are concentrated more in the north.

So, if, for example, you start mining, and the government is saying, okay, you are producing this, you are entitled to a percentage of this as a state to form part of your revenue, I don’t think anybody would want to oppose that if they understand that that is what›s exactly happening. But in a similar vein, if the South-West is maybe exporting cocoa or maybe some little bit of coffee and you now say, okay, we know there will be degradation of the soil at one point or the other. So, if you export this, or you produce this, and or you consume that, whatever consumption that you are generating tax on, a sizable percentage of it should be held on for you to be able to utilize for the development of the region and that is beneficial to either north or south or south-south or wherever.

So, it should be looked at from that perspective. It’s a question of reaching out to our people and explaining what the case is. I know it›s not easy to read those volumes, you know, but let’s make an effort before we shoot something down and say, oh, this one is anti this, it’s anti that. By the time people study this thing critically, they will see most of the advantages that will accrue from this new tax reform policy of the government.

 

One of the issues that people have with the proposed legislation, is the fact that some have expressed some reservations about the fact that the Oyedele Committee did not do enough in terms of consultation to get the buy-in of Nigerians. I don’t know whether you share those sentiments. Secondly is the fact that Nigerians, because of what they are facing, are actually cynical. They look at the cost of governance and they say even if the money comes in, it’s still within a particular circle that would enjoy the benefits. What’s your take on this?

I look at it this way; that there are policies of this government that point in a different direction. There is this NELFUND, which is loans for students and of course, if you look at the whole of the United States, you will not say because you don’t have money, you will not go to school. The moment you enter, even their four-year colleges, there is a loan that you just sign for it. It’s almost guaranteed that you will get it. And you pay when you start working, after you leave college. Nobody’s going to ask you to start paying the second year or the third year. But once you graduate, you start paying the money back once you have a job. And it’s a policy that I think the experience of Mr. President, when he was in college in the United States, has assisted him in formulating such policy to ensure that Nigerians are educated without undue burden, without the problem of because I don’t have money, I don’t have education.

Once you have education, what you now do with it is what will determine how your life will pan out in the future. So, I believe that such funds, some will be targeted at that and I’ve seen that our budget is now getting friendlier towards infrastructure development.

So, it’s no longer the case of where you see the recurrent expenditure overtaking the capital infrastructural development money. When you look at this government, you will see that even our foreign reserve has been going up in spite of all the difficulties that we have. When you look at the fact that, okay, we’re talking of the difficulties of this petroleum subsidy issue, which a number of people have shouted over, we know it has caused some pains. But at the same time, do we really have any choice? Can we continue to look at the fact that oil is selling at maybe $70 per barrel now, or $75 or thereabout.

We want to get the benefit of selling that oil at $75 but we do not want to pay for the refined products that somebody must still buy the crude to be able to produce. And if we continue to subsidize, we will get to a point that we’ll have no money to develop our infrastructure. The roads will be impassible; security will be a problem, and so on and so forth. And when you look at this government, they’re spending money on security as well. You will see that the incidents of herdsmen crisis that we faced some years back are subsiding. You are no longer hearing the problem of maybe, well, they might still be having cattle rustling and all that, but the danger to human life has started reducing somehow. Now, I’m not saying we’ve got into a perfect solution but it’s looking like we’re getting to a stabilizing price. Now apart from Dangote, Port Harcourt Refinery is working. I understand Warri is going to come on stream.

When you know whether a government is working or not, you will see some promises are made and most of the promises are kept. This President has said the refineries would work and I believe the totality of the benefits will go to the public. Incidentally, this same government is providing alternative in terms of these Compressed Natural Gas vehicles, though, because of the outlets, which are still limited, it has not taken off full-fledged. But the moment that people know that they can have a choice between using gas, using electric, using petrol, you discover that people will not have to tell those selling petrol to reduce their prices because those other sources will bring them down. So once these alternatives are provided, these are part of the ways to ameliorate the problem that the society is facing in terms of choice. In the past it is only petrol that you have to use to fuel your vehicle.

Now we have the CNG-powered vehicle and you have electric cars coming into the fold. So, when we look at a performing government, this government cannot be rated based on the subsidy removal issue alone. We should look at the totality of what efforts is the government making to ensure that some of these problems that people are complaining about are actually minimized. Every time there’s a problem, this president has come to the public to address Nigerians that I know that things are difficult but be patient with me and things will have a turn back.

And that›s why I think personally, in all areas, we have been able to see some movement that the government is working, it is attending to the needs of the people and that continues. So, I can continue to speak on and on on this but it’s not a question of just saying this government is 100%. No. But this government is moving very positively, and this country is realizing it and I hope the people, those who do not necessarily see anything good from government, will begin to realize it gradually. You look at even difficult positions, look at the local government autonomy and we hope the local government people will have sufficient management experience to ensure that this will trickle down to the people that really deserve to enjoy the dividends of this democracy, because we are hoping that we are not moving from one problem to the other. We are hoping that the local government people will begin to actually penetrate the local people and provide convenience, facilities and amenities for them to enjoy our country.

 

One of the arguments by the north, especially the governor of Borno State, Professor Babagana Zulum, is that because of the derivation clause in the sharing of VAT proceeds, though states are now going to get 60%, that that clause for derivation which says that the 60% will be shared among the states based on derivation, do you think they are justified in their fears that, that if the tax bills are passed, it would be inimical to their economic interests?

I think we got it wrong ab initio. The Federal Government is not supposed to be the one generating revenue for the states. If we were to practice our federalism correctly, every state can actually determine that, okay; I have so many schools because I’m expecting this population to grow from A to B. And there are businesses that the state government will also support their people to start moving things in the direction of economic viability. But the moment, you say VAT that is generated in X place, if they pay those people a percentage that you would be shortchanged, then the idea that we want to progress and move forward is already defeated. Every state should be able to say, okay, this is how much I’m generating. This is how to improve on it. I was even surprised a few days when I read an article, the kind of internally generated revenue from Ekiti state that is higher than many, many states. I don’t know if the data is correct because I was really comparing it to that of some big states like Ogun and all those places.

So, if Ekiti that is so small and we don’t have oil, we don’t have much, we are able to still work hard to generate such revenue base, I don’t think there is any problem with any state taking the gauntlet and saying, I will not necessarily taxing your people, but expanding the horizon of business opportunities for them. If you put them into extensive farming, there are ways that you can generate money. In fact, under Governor Badaru in those days, I went to Jigawa state and he explained what he has done in agriculture, particularly with sesame seed, he was now exporting, now, why can’t we, before looking, and say that we have resources in this place. We are going to build our resources in such a way that our people will benefit from it. Once they start benefiting, they will plough back to society, to the state, so let them begin to look at, even if it’s what we used to call incubation centers, where people would train their people to begin to run businesses, to do things let the government and the state governors, let them look at those positive aspects.

This is not punitive for anybody. It is a way for you to start looking at, okay, this is a challenge that we need to overcome and meet it. And you now find out that, within a very short period of time many of these states will come up and start generating a lot of revenue for whatever they need. And nobody is saying that all the money from the Federal Government should no longer go to the states. They are saying; let us encourage their people to be hard-working. Now, it has got to a time in this country that if we are not careful, only those people in politics will be making money.

And so, we will now make it a profession to the detriment of our growth as a nation. I’ve always spoke out on this particular way of our lives that is very dangerous for our development, it is very dangerous for research, dangerous for innovation. So, if everybody that is growing up says, if I just make it to be senator, I make it to be governor, make it to be president…and that will be their ultimate goal and you can only have one president at a time and you can have 109 senators in the whole country at a time. So, people will be fighting, fighting that if they don’t go into politics they will not make money. It becomes a wrong way to start looking at things. So, for me, I will advise a very educated man, Zulum that he should take a second look and begin to advise his colleagues that this is good for this country. There is nothing that lasts forever and you see countries that have been ruled for so long and all of a sudden, some rebels just came, within two, three weeks they have sacked Assad from power.

So it’s because he has been listening to himself. He believes he’s insulated. And in this country, nobody is insulated. The only insulation you have is to treat your people well; ensure that there’s progress. If you have a multitude of people, who are graduates, their level of thinking would improve and their way of life would also improve. I’ve seen many other elite from the North, they only have one wife, whereas you see some people having like four wives and 30 children. The same thing happens in some parts of the South. It is not unique to the North but you look at it that how would an educated man have 30 children? Does he want to send them to school or not? So, some of these things are things that we have to have policies to change some of these mentalities. It is not the poor man on the street that will change it. It’s the elite, the educated people, the governors, who are far ahead, and the scholars. They have to talk to people that these things are not sustainable. They will have to change at one time or the other. So, I would say that Governor Zulum, a person that I have very high regards for because he was a professor and all that before he became governor and everybody speaks well of him. I want to believe that he has not really looked at this bill very, very critically so that the issue of VAT, which is only now going to go to 10% of consumption, because if you don›t buy something, you don›t pay VAT.

So those poor people on the street, if they don›t go out and buy something in the supermarket, even in the market, who charges VAT? Not in the market that they go to. So, it’s designed for organized society, and it’s a foundation that we can build on and estimate how much do we get. How much of this money goes to education? How much goes to agriculture? How much goes to manufacturing? What do we do as leaders for our society to ensure that we really show this leadership. It is the responsibility of the leaders to direct the place that the followers will go. The followers should not be the one saying that this is the way you should go. You need to plan for your people in such a way that the future is guaranteed, is rosier and is better for everybody.

 

Still on this bill—even people who are manufacturers also have some reservations about the tax system under Tinubu and the argument is that any economy that wants to do well is driven by productivity, not taxation. What is your take?

You see, some of these arguments are neither here nor there. There are some that would ask: how do you get an omelette without breaking the egg? How do you get an egg without the broilers, or the layers producing the eggs? So, yes, productivity is very good. It’s a good driver for development. But you must be able to pass the test of stable power. If you don›t have power, how do you get into productivity; if you cannot run your factories? If you don›t have roads to travel on or even distribute your products, how do you contribute to society? Now you can go on and keep on asking the questions one to the other. And if the factories are producing, they are selling, and you are not able to put anything back in society by way of taxes that can be used to improve the lives and livelihood of the people, even those, I mean, in your environment, how do you say productivity will take the front-burner?

Of course, there are so many things mitigating against some of those assumed growth factors. You look at it, if for example, you say you want to produce, they have tax holidays for many factories. They can say, come and start production. Now when you start producing, we will give you a tax holiday for one year or two years and there are so many of them that have such tax holidays in the manufacturing sector. So, it is when you are balanced and you have employees and you begin to get productivity, which is when you are now in a position to say that, yes, I am paying so much in taxes. If you don›t make profit, it’s difficult for you to get taxed.

But once you start running your business and you are making money, it is moral for you to give back to society on such grounds. If you now look at it, it is not taxation that drives the economy. I look at it somehow because most of the advanced countries, if you look at the UK for example, in the industrial age, they were far ahead. But in this modern age, when you speak of creativity, most of these new ideas, either from Microsoft, Artificial Intelligence and all of that, the number of these things are driven by countries mostly like the developed countries and so you now look at it that okay if these countries have not been asking for taxes to develop their economy and their sectors, these opportunities will not be springing out into these nations.

So first of all, we should not confuse the need for taxation, and then mix it up with the need for industrialization. Those who work pari-pasu, hand in hand, and one cannot be slowed down in the place of the other. As much as when you want to start a factory in this country today, any city that you go to, you ask them for tax holiday, they will grant you so that you can start a factory there. I don›t know how Oyedele has addressed it in the bills. I am not conversant with how he addressed the issue of tax holidays for manufacturers. But there are so many things, so many new waivers granted to manufacturers to ensure that we really pick up our industrial base because we need it.

 

Eighteen months in with President Tinubu in the saddle, I want to have your assessment of his administration having at the back of your mind the complaints of the people, especially as regards the removal of the fuel subsidy, and floating of the Naira. People are complaining, not only the poor, including the elite.

Well, thank you for that question. There is nobody that is not feeling that something happened in Nigeria in terms of fuel subsidy or in terms of forex exchange or typically forex subsidy removal because that’s another subsidy. A situation whereby people will buy money at N500 in the bank and turn around and sell it for N700 or N800 in the black market and turn around the following week and do the same thing and individuals were making stupendous wealth, which is not really adding value to society because such people are not the ones that are running factories. They do not want to be bothered with a headache on that because the money is so easy for them to make and at the end of the day you look at it that the government is losing. The government is subsidising that forex and consistently, it was affecting our foreign reserves because every time you want to stabilize, you go and take money from our foreign reserves and sell it and use it to stabilize the Naira.

It is obvious now that market forces have taken over and the forex market. As about last week, all of a sudden, we started witnessing some drop in the appreciation of the Naira and this is responding to the fact that the supply is now outweighing the demand. And typically, every year during Christmas, when people are coming home to come and spend holidays, to come and visit their families, they actually come with a lot of dollars.

Now, because nobody is carrying cash as much. There are so many of these apps that you can buy money from them. And once they saw the volume coming in, the rates started declining. I remember it went as low as N1,400 from N1,750 within two weeks or three weeks. So, some people are saying that it is beginning to climb back up, but that is market forces at play. It is not that the government is selling to themselves or their cronies at about 800 naira or 1,000 naira and they are turning around to go and sell it in the black market for N1,500 or N1,700. So, for that, that is a great achievement of President Tinubu. Individually, we might, we would rather if we are buying money at N1,000 or N500 so that it will satisfy our quest for foreign goods, for holidays and these things are not adding to the investment in this country.

It is just for people to enjoy themselves. And you look at it as we should be striving towards stabilizing this currency. If we have a stable currency that is convertible, if everybody understands that this currency is stable, there is no reason why Naira cannot become a convertible currency. Because you know that if you are in America, the exchange rate that you are going to get there is the same that you get in Nigeria, the same that you get in the UK and the same that you get in Ghana.

The moment we are able to get to that point, then you can take your Naira and travel and you change it anywhere in the world. So, we used to enjoy that many years ago, it was possible. I remember in the early 80s, you could take your Naira and go to the UK, you change it at Thomas Cook there. I mean, gradually, this country declined to the point that we can no longer take our Naira outside and exchange it like that. So, some things are being reversed, and progressively so. We have seen now that it’s not that the Naira will constantly be devaluing, it will still appreciate, depending on the supply in the marketplace. And people are now more comfortable to understand that they are buying their dollar from the same source. It is not like somebody who go and buy his own much cheaper than what you are getting. You invest in the same raw materials. Somebody is paying for his own at N500 and another is paying for his own at 1,700. There is no way they can compete in the same market. So right now, there is some stability in the forex market.

Yes, we have seen the inflation. We have seen the effect that, in the past, our bread here, if you buy bread in Nigeria, I don›t know, it’s not about 2,000 naira. If you look at that critically, a loaf of bread in America, you could buy them for $1.49 or $1.99. So, if it is $2, that means it’s equivalent of N3,000 or something like that because the same raw material goes into the same product.

You have to use wheat for whatever you are using to produce the bread and so those prices are just looking more like normal than you have in the advanced countries. For a long time, our bread, the loaf of bread was much cheaper and you can find it elsewhere. So, some of these things positively at the end of the day is just taking our economy to a stable situation where foreign investors can come in and be sure that okay, they are going to get their money at the rate of input that they put in the business here. So, for me, some of these things maybe could have been graduated, it’s arguable because by the time we start graduating it, every time we try to move it from one step to the other, the labour people will start their riot (laughs).

So, having a sudden one now means that these people can only fight you once on the same issue. So, when they fight you once on the same issue, you overcome it, you move on, society will blend and things would adjust. Those who are producing detergent now, the sachet, it is not the same amount they were selling it two years ago; ditto those producing even the sachet water. So, everybody is adjusting gradually.

We know it’s expensive, but we need more money in society. We have increased payment of salaries, the minimum to be N70,000. I believe gradually some of these things would begin to increase. It’s not going to be stagnant at that N70,000. It is going to continue to grow gradually. I believe that in another two years, people will see the import of some of these decisions in our society at large. I don›t think it›s all that negative as we are taking it. I believe if you look at those who understand economics very well, by and large, we are moving in a progressive way somehow.

 

The governor of Ekiti State, not long ago, celebrated two years in office and some, if not all his predecessors have endorsed him for second term. That would be the first time in the history of state that a serving governor, even people in the opposition will come out and say, we endorse you for second term. What has the governor done differently?

I would say that he is a very smart young man. He is extremely polite. So, it’s difficult for you to see any of the leaders from Ekiti to say that he’s opposing him. It’s very difficult because, I mean, he has no air of arrogance. He will look for you. If you need anything, you call him… I hardly trouble any government anyway (laughs). In my case, if I ask him for anything that I need, like security and stuffs like that, he will provide. So, he has stolen the heart of most of the leaders. So that is why nobody is actively opposing him. What are you going to be opposing him on? And he’s working. He’s doing his work. I mean, people are seeing things that he’s doing. It might not be that there is a lot of gap between him and his predecessors in terms of implementation. But most of the programmes that even his predecessors put in place, he is implementing all of it and he is adding his own. He is doing things for the benefit of Ekiti people. So, I think it’s not a misplaced endorsement. It’s a good endorsement, which I think that would at least remove him from those that people would exploit (laughs) during the primaries or thereafter. So, I think he has done very well and like I said, he is an extremely polite individual.

 

2027 will soon be here. What are your plans? Are you going to be seeking re-election to the Senate?

Obviously, that is about the only thing I can do now in terms of my antecedents. I can’t go to the House of Representatives. So, I can only go back to the Senate. I will wait to discuss with the governor and the former governor, who is from my local government. So, you know, politics is a game of interest. He is a younger man and if he says he wants to go to the Senate, then as the leader of the party, for that constituency that might throw some spanners in our thinking. But again, if it is the desire of the people and if it’s what God wants me to do, I’m sure the doors will be opened and I will probably give it a shot.

 

What are your expectations for the 2025 federal budget?

Incidentally, I have not gone through the budget seriously, but I believe that once the 2024 budget has about 80% implementation, it will be a good direction where the country is heading. We should not wait till the last minute when monies are supposed to go back to the treasury before we start spending like no man’s business. I have confidence in those handling our economy. So far, we’ve been able to see, like I said, the stability in the exchange rate and we’ve been able to see movement.

The refineries have been fixed. They might not be functioning 100 percent and whatever is left can also still be fixed. I believe that will translate to a lot of succour for the public in terms of cost of buying fuel and the government should continue to find a way of expanding the terminals for CNG and to look at how our power generation will be commensurate with the demand that we have in this country. The government alone cannot do it. I know a number of people are coming up and developing more power generation outlets.

I believe my friend; Deji Adeleke is building another plant. I think there are other people, I don’t know how much of what Tony Elumelu is doing, but I’m sure he’s going to be expanding his generation plant. I believe Otedola has one of those power-generating plants. The moment we are able to move from all these low-wattage generation and we are able to move up significantly, the better for this economy and that will be maybe like a catapult from where we are now to the next level that we want to be. I hope the government has made adequate provision for how to improve on the distribution and I believe those ones doing direct link, the DisCos, they too, somehow, would improve on the kind of production facilities that they have in the country so that meters will not be so scarce and you will not be paying so much for it. Of course, the moment the government creates the enabling environment for some of these things to thrive, then the better for the country.

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